Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down inperson with Canadian lawyer Bruce Pardy and podcaster Konstantin Kisin. They discuss Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Bill C63 (aka The Online Harms Act), what powers it gives to the government, what rights it strips from citizens, and why even Americans should be concerned.

Bruce Pardy is executive director of Rights Probe, a law and liberty think tank, and professor of law at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. He is a lawyer, academic, columnist, and outspoken critic of the illiberal managerial state, fighting at the front lines of the culture war inside the law. Bruce writes for the National Post, Epoch Times, and the Brownstone Institute, among others, and serves as senior fellow at the Fraser Institute, the MacdonaldLaurier Institute, and the Frontier Centre for Public Policy. He has taught at law schools in Canada, the United States and New Zealand, practiced civil litigation in Toronto, and served as adjudicator and mediator on the Ontario Environmental Tribunal. The legal ground, Bruce has written, is shifting beneath our feet. The individual is losing to the collective. An everexpanding bureaucracy regulates life from cradle to grave, including private behavior and speech, in the name of common good. The law has become discretionary, arbitrary, and unequal. The end of Western liberal civilization, as we have known it, is conceivable.

Konstantin Kisin is a RussianBritish satirist, social commentator, and cohost of the TRIGGERnometry Youtube show. He is also the author of “An Immigrant's Love Letter to the West,” a Sunday Times bestseller. He has written for several publications, including Quillette, The Spectator, The Daily Telegraph, and Standpoint, on issues relating to tech censorship, woke culture, comedy, and other topics, but he currently publishes articles on his popular Substack. Kisin made headlines in 2018 when he refused to sign a "safe space contract" to perform comedy at a British college and again in 2023 when he participated in an Oxford Union debate on the motion of "This House Believes Woke Culture Has Gone Too Far." His speech at the debate received viral attention and has been seen by over 100 million people around the world.

This episode was recorded on April 14th, 2024

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Links

2024 tour details can be found here https://jordanbpeterson.com/events

Peterson Academy https://petersonacademy.com/


For Bruce Pardy:

On X https://twitter.com/pardybruce?lang=en
Rights Probe Link: https://www.rightsprobe.org/


For Konstantin Kisin:

TRIGGERnometry Podcast @triggerpod

Substack https://konstantinkisin.substack.com/

Twitter https://twitter.com/KonstantinKisin?r...


Chapters

(0:00) Coming up
(0:35) Intro
(2:35) Starting with Bill C16
(4:41) C63 is “C16 on steroids”
(8:19) Most people do not actually agree with free speech
(9:55) The devil in the details: what Bill C63 actually says
(17:21) The UK has seen a similar rise against “harmful speech”
(19:19) Totalitarianism begins with the language of compassion
(22:21) You are allowed to cause people harm with your speech, this is why
(25:11) Tribunals are not courts, Bill C63 empowers bureaucratic justice
(27:59) Rewriting of the law now guarantees equal outcome over equal treatment
(30:13) When the government is doing this, it means you no longer live in a free country
(35:04) What rights should we have? Where the Charter of Rights fails
(41:54) Noncrime hate incidents, the absurdity of overreach
(44:21) Intent and truth are no longer relevant
(48:05) Categories of hate speech restriction in Canada
(53:04) The weaponization of human rights
(1:00:39) You can be punished precrime if anyone demonstrates fear that you might commit one
(1:05:57) If a fact offends someone, Bill C63 considers the fact harmful
(1:07:44) Why are there only a handful of people who seem concerned?
(1:12:54) Why constitutional lawyers are not speaking up
(1:15:10) Conservatives and Liberals are working together against the Woke, but disagree on the problem
(1:22:46) Debating the restriction of selfimposed harm, forced virtue is as bad as forced obedience
(1:31:57) Does freedom involve agency?
(1:35:16) This awful progressive idea has become mainstream
(1:38:20) Moral conviction should not become legal responsibility
(1:43:02) The dynamism between slave and tyrant
(1:45:43) The degenerate state, why laws replace selfregulation